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Page 50 Continued
Q. Mr. Ligon, before we took a quick break, we were talking about your discussions with the Texas Ranger Gordon?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. I may have already asked you this, and I apologize if I have. But from September 23rd of 1997 through April 6th of 1998, did you have any further
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discussions with Texas Ranger Gordon regarding the jail itself?
A. Not that -- not that I can recall.
Q. Okay. You said on April 6th of '98 you had a discussion with him regarding Jeannie Lee Rowley?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And how did that discussion come about?
A. In the investigation that he had obviously conducted.
Q. Okay. Did he approach you?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And what did he say to you?
Mr. Nelson: About what?
Ms. Lemanczyk: About his investigation.
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. What did he say when he approached you about the incident?
A. He informed me what she had said and asked what was my side of the story.
Q. Did he tell you how he had learned -- well, did you -- did he tell you when he had heard -- talked to Ms. Rowley?
A. I'm pretty sure he did, but I don't recall when it was.
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Q. Okay. So what did you tell him was your side of the story?
A. I told him the incident that had occurred.
Q. And what specifically did you tell him?
A. I don't remember the specifics of the conversation.
Q. Okay. You had told him about the incident regarding the oral sex --
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. -- in the rec room?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Did you tell him anything else?
A. I'm not sure.
Q. Did you discuss any other incidents regarding Ms. Rowley?
A. I don't recall the conversation in its entirety.
Q. Okay. Did you discuss Ms. Cotton with him?
A. I don't remember -- I don't recall.
Q. Okay. What is your understanding of the reason you were -- your employment was terminated?
Mr. Nelson: I'm going to let him answer it, but I think we've already gone through that and he's responded to that. But go ahead and answer it.
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The Witness: Can you repeat the question, please?
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. What is your understanding of the reason your employment was terminated with Llano County?
A. From engaging in oral sex with Ms. Rowley.
Q. Did you ever discuss engaging in sexual intercourse with Sheriff Garrett?
Ms. Lemanczyk: I have got to strike that question.
Mr. Nelson: I don't think you're going to get him to admit to that.
Ms. Lemanczyk: I apologize for that one. I don't expect you to answer that one, but if you'd like to, please go ahead.
Mr. Nelson: I think he can categorically deny that one.
The Witness: Very much so.
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. Did you ever have any discussions with Sheriff Garrett regarding Ms. Cotton?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Can you describe for me your duties as a jailer?
Mr. Nelson: Are you asking
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him to tell you everything he did with respect to anything having to do with being a jailer? What exactly are you asking him to tell you?
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. What is your understanding of what your duties were when you were there? What were your duties while you were on -- in the scope of your employment?
A. Booking, receiving, housecleaning, general maintenance. It's a very broad spectrum of -- paper work.
Mr. Nelson: I mean, if you can make it more narrow. Are you talking about with respect to inmates, with respect to the --
Ms. Lemanczyk: Right.
Mr. Nelson: -- maintenance of the facility? He could probably answer your question a little better if you could narrow it a little bit.
(At this time, an instrument was here marked for identification as Exhibit No. 12.)
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. I'm going to hand you Exhibit No. 12. Have you seen this document before?
A. Yes, ma'am. I believe this is what they give you when you receive your application.
Q. When you receive your application for
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employment?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Okay. And did you receive one of these?
A. I believe so. I'm not -- I'm not positive.
Q. Okay. Do you recall receiving one of these when you applied for the position?
A. No, ma'am. I can't say.
Q. Okay. On this document is listed "Correctional Officer - Qualifications." Also on that is a list of job duties. Would that be a -- is this a fair representation of what your duties were?
A. Yes, ma'am. I believe it was.
Q. Okay. So it was your duty to -- you were responsible for the security of the jail and the safety of the inmates; is that correct?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Okay. And you were also responsible for the supervision of trusties; is that correct?
A. Yes, m,a'am.
Q. Okay.
(At this time, an instrument was here marked for identification as Exhibit No. 13.)
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. I'm going to hand you what I've marked Exhibit 13. Have you seen this document?
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A. Yes, ma'am, I believe so.
Q. Okay. If you can refer to Interrogatory No. 7, please.
A. Okay.
Q. In there you responded to the different duties you had as a jailer; is that correct?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. You make no reference in that portion to maintaining or being responsible for the security and safety of the inmates; is that correct?
Mr. Nelson: Hold on before you answer. I object in that it inaccurately states the response. The response specifically references the description of duties for jailers with the Llano County Sheriff's Department as being attached as Appendix A to his response.
Ms. Lemancxyk: Okay.
Mr. Shaunessy: And let me go further. Exhibit A is identical to what just got marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 12.
Mr. Nelson: Right, correct.
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. Okay. You've attached Appendix A to your answers, correct?
A. Yes, ma'am.
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Q. Okay. In your statement preceding -- in your answer preceding the fact that you attached Appendix A, there's no response that one of your duties is the safety of inmates; is that correct?
Mr. Nelson: I'm still going to object in that it is taking the answer out of context in response to the question which asked him to describe in detail the duties you performed as a jailer at the Llano County Jail from September, '97 till the time of the termination of your employment, including the amount of time required to perform each duty or task. I mean, if you're going to try to impeach a witness, I don't have a problem with that, but where he has attached the appendix with the duties and the duties speak for themselves in what is stated in that appendix, to try to impeach him by saying he didn't include that in his answer is improper.
Mr. Shaunessy: Let me go one step further. The answer specifically says, "A description of duties for jailers with the Llano County Sheriff's Department is attached as Appendix A, " which, again, is Exhibit 12 to this deposition.
Ms. Lemancxyk: Which is what you've already stated as well, and I thank you for the clarification.
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Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. Mr. Ligon, is it your understanding that you're responsible for the safety of the inmates?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And you're responsible for the supervision of the trusties; is that correct?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Tell me what you do in your job duties to ensure the safety of inmates.
Mr. Nelson: If you need her to repeat that question, that's fine.
The Witness: For the safety of the inmates, we've had to keep them apart from other inmates. We've had to take them to the hospital. We keep them locked -- we keep their cells locked in trying to keep other inmates away from them.
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. Separating female inmates from male inmates by sight and sound, would you agree that that's for safety reasons?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Do you perform cell checks?
A. Yes, ma'am, I do.
Q. And how often do your policies require -- do the Llano County policies require you to do cell checks?
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A. I cannot recall exactly what is noted in there. If you have something to refresh my memory on that, I'll be more than happy to look at it.
Q. Well, do you recall if there's a written policy regarding cell checks?
A. I can't recall a specific document, but I would imagine that there is.
Q. You don't know for sure, though?
A. No, ma'am. I can't be for positive.
Q. Okay. What is your understanding of how often cell checks were to be conducted?
A. At least once an hour.
Q. Okay. And did you do those cell checks?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Tell me the procedure for doing cell checks.
A. Making sure that the inmates are accountable in the jail.
Q. Okay. And how did you go about doing that?
A. Walk around and look at them.
Q. Okay. And did you keep any records of --
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And what records did you keep?
A. We keep a cell check log, head count log.
Q. Is that in a -- is it bound or is it a big book or--
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A. It's a sheet of paper. It was a form that we kept throughout.
Q. Where was that form kept?
A. While we were still filling it out during -- are you asking, in the process of doing the head counts, where was it kept?
Q. Right.
A. On the desk in the office.
Q. Would you go do the cell checks, then, and come back and log it in?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Were there times that you forgot to come back and log it in?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Was that just a Xerox sheet of paper?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Okay. And then you would come back and log it in?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And then what would you do with the log?
A. After -- are you -- when are you asking? I mean --
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Q. Did you just keep the log -- was the log maintained out on the desk at all times?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Okay. When you would go on cell checks, would you take the keys with you?
A. To do a cell check was not required to have the keys on you, no.
Q. Okay. Did you ever take the jail keys with you when you went on cell checks?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Did you always take the keys with you on cell checks?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Those keys were kept in the cage; is that correct?
A. They were either in the cage or on my person.
Q. Okay. But if you didn't take the keys with you on the cell check, they would be in the cage; is that correct?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Okay. And in the cage, there's a drawer. Can you tell me where the keys were kept in the cage?
A. There was a drawer in the cage where they were kept.
Q. Okay. What shifts did you work while you were
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employed with Llano County?
A. I started out working the 7:00a.m. to 7:00p.m. shift. I believe after the first of the year, the year being '98, I worked -- it was an eight-hour shift. I can't remember. I believe that would be 7:00 to 3:00.
Q. 7:00a.m.?
A. 7:00a.m. to 3:00p.m., yes, ma'am.
Q. Okay. When you first started, you worked 7:00 a.m. to 7:00p.m.; is that correct?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Okay. And do you recall how long you worked that shift?
A. No, ma'am, I do not.
Q. At some point, you began working the 7:00p.m. to 7:00 a.m. shift?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Do you recall when you started that?
A. No, ma'am, I don't.
Q. But after the first of the year, then you began to work 7:00a.m. to 3:00p.m.; is that correct?
A. I believe so.
Q. Okay.
A. But there was also a time in there between the
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7:00 p.m. to 7:00a.m. that I rolled back around to the 7:00a.m. to 7:00p.m., or from the night shift back to the day shift.
Q. Okay. You don't recall the dates on that?
A. No, ma'am, I don't recall.
Q. Why did you begin working the 7:00a.m. to 3:00p.m. shift in 1998?
A. They had taken us off of a 12-hour shift and put us on 8-hour shifts.
Q. Okay. Prior to that, were you working the 7:00p.m. to 7:00a.m. shift or were you working the 7:00a.m. to 7:00p.m.?
A. I believe I was working the day shift, which would be 7:00a.m. to 7:00p.m.
Q. Okay. Now, the eight-hour shift, was that a new policy for all of the jailers?
A. I believe so. I'm not --
Q. All of the jailers were just working eight-hour shifts after the --
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. -- new year? And who made that change?
A. I do not know. I --
Q. Were you ever told why that change was made?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. No one informed you why everyone was now
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working eight-hour shifts?
A. My understanding, I believe it was from -- so that --
Mr. Shaunessy: Well, let me object to the extent that -- the witness may not have a problem, but to the extent the answer calls for him to guess or speculate, I'm going to object to that.
Mr. Nelson: If you know, then you can tell her, but don't make any assumptions. If you know, you can tell her.
The Witness: Well, I'm not for sure.
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. No one ever told you why they switched to eight-hour shifts?
A. No, ma'am.
Mr. Nelson: Excuse me.
(Brief Interruption)
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. I believe earlier you testified that there were times that you were the only jailer on duty; is that correct?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And was that during a certain shift that you were the only jailer?
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A. It could be on any of the shifts.
Q. Okay. Was there a rotation in the shift, or was there a reason why you would be the only jailer -- let me ask you to disregard that question, please. Were the shifts set up so that there was a regular time that you were the only jailer on duty?
Mr. Shaunessy: You mean the same time every day or --
Ms. Lemancyk: Right.
The Witness: No, not necessarily.
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. Okay. When would there be more than one jailer on duty?
A. If I was on shift and Mr. Lawson came in, he may be there the entire day. He may have to go patrol that day. I wouldn't -- I wouldn't have an exact time that I knew I was going to be the only one there from that time to that time.
Q. Okay. When you worked the 7:00p.m. to 7:00a.m. shift, were you the only jailer on duty?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Mr. Shaunessy: Are you talking about the whole time or -- I'm asking about your
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question.
Ms. Lemanczyk: I'm talking about the whole time that he did the 7:00 p.m. shift to 7:00 a.m. shift. He stated yes, he was the only jailer on duty.
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. You stated that Melvin Lawson was your supervisor, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. But when you were the only jailer on duty, obviously he wouldn't be there at that time, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Did he ever perform any evaluations of your job?
A. I'm not aware of any.
Q. Okay. He never gave you a written evaluation and told you you were doing good in this area or needed work in another area?
A. No, ma'am. He never gave me a written evaluation.
Q. Okay. Did he ever give you a verbal evaluation?
A. Not that I'm aware of.
Q. And I'm kind of jumping off track here, and I apologize. I just wanted to clarify from earlier. Did
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you receive any outside training or go through any courses or certification from the time that you were employed in l995 until the time when your employment ended in 1998?
Mr. Nelson: You mean other than the correspondence course? Is that what you're asking?
Ms. Lemanczyk: Right.
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. We already know that you went through the correspondence course and that you had in-house training, on-the-job training?
A. Right.
Q. Did you receive any outside training?
A. No, ma'am, not that I can recall.
Q. You're familiar with Johnny Pesina, correct?
A. Yes, ma'am. I know who he is.
Q. And he was a trusty at the time that you were employed at Llano County, correct?
A. He was a trusty not the entire time I was employed, but while he was incarcerated in there, there was a time frame in there where he was a trusty.
Q. Okay. And what was that time frame?
A. I do not know. I cannot recall exact days.
Q. Okay. What's your understanding of the duties
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of a trusty?
A. He's to perform the duties that he's assigned.
Q. And what kind of duties would you assign him?
A. Preparing of the meals, the laundry, the general cleaning, things of that nature.
Q He'd take trash to the dumpsters?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Did he do any of these duties while -- let me strike that. The duties also entailed sometimes washing cars, correct?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And he would get trash out of the women's cell; is that correct?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. He would never pick up trash from the women's cell?
A. No, ma'am.
Mr. Nelson: First your question was out of the women's cell, and now your question is from the women's cell..
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. Did he ever collect trash out of the women's cell?
A. No, ma'am. We never instructed him to -- excuse me. I never instructed him to.
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Q. His duties would include waxing floors, correct?
A. Yes, ma'am, I believe they would.
Q. While you were working the 7:00p.m. to 7:00a.m. shift, you gave him duties to perform; is that correct?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Okay. When he performed these duties, you weren't always standing there watching him, were you?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Or if he was cooking the food, you weren't always standing there watching him cooking the food, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Mr. Pesina delivered towels to the inmates, correct?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And you weren't always with him when he delivered towels; is that correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And he delivered food to the inmates, correct?
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Mr. Shaunessy: Let me object to the form of the question. You're using the generic term "inmates," and I don't know and I don't know if the witness knows if you're talking about men and women.
Ms. Lemanczyk: I believe men and women are both inmates in that jail.
Mr. Shaunessy: So your question is, he delivered food to both men and women?
The Witness: No. He was not supposed to to both men and women. To the men, yes. And as far as the towels go, no, he was not supposed to. He was not supposed to have any interaction with the females.
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. Well, you sent him to deliver Tylenol to Ms. Wisdom, didn't you?
A. No, ma'am, I did not.
Q. And he delivered tea to female inmates, didn't he?
A. I'm not aware of that.
Q. You never told him to give tea to the inmates while they were in the rec room? Let me clarify, female inmates in the rec room.
A. No, ma'am. Normally we set the tea outside of
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the rec room, and they could get their own.
Q. Mr. Pesina delivered tea to the male inmates, didn't he?
A. Are you referring to while at rec or while locked up?
Q. Let's talk about while they were locked up?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Did he deliver tea to them while they were in the rec room?
A. Each individual person, no. The tea would be brought out and set on the filing cabinets, which is located next to the rec room, and they could fill their own glass at that time, if they wanted the tea or the coffee.
Mr. Nelson: Can we go off the record for a minute?
Ms. Lemanczyk: Uh-huh.
(Off The Record)
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. Mr. Ligon, is it your testimony that the trusties did not deliver meals to female inmates?
A. No, ma'am, it is not.
Q. They, in fact, delivered meals to female inmates, correct?
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Mr. Shaunessy: Let me object to the form of the question as to what's meant by "deliver " but --
Mr. Nelson: You also have now gone to inmates. First your question was female inmates. Then you went back to inmates. So, again, that --
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. Did trusties deliver meals to inmates?
A. Yes.
Q. Did trusties deliver meals to female inmates?
A. They weren't supposed to but they may have.
Q. Okay.
Mr. Nelson: And if you need to ask her what she means by "deliver," you may do that.
The Witness: Okay.
Mr. Nelson: Your definition of "deliver" may be different than hers.
Questions By Ms. Lemanczyk:
Q. To your knowledge, did trusties deliver tea to female inmates?
A. Not to my knowledge.
(Continued on Ligon Deposition V4)