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A. I don't know.
Q. Do you know whether or not the clothes have been returned?
A. I don't know.
Questions By Ms. Jones:
Q. Sheriff, I'd like you to take a look at what I've had marked as Garrett Depo Exhibit No.2 and have you look at that, and I'd like to ask you to please, if you can, identify it for the record by stating what it is.
A. Would you repeat what you want me to look at?
Q. Yes, sir, Exhibit No.2 -- Garrett Deposition Exhibit No.2.
A. Okay.
Q. And tell me whether or not you can identify Exhibit No.2 by stating what it is.
A. It's my report.
Q. Okay. So you've seen this report before, obviously if it's your report?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And did you type this report?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Who typed it?
A. My -- one of my secretaries.
Q. Do you recall which one?
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A. Pam Cowan.
Q. Is she a dispatcher?
A. Do what?
Q. Is she a dispatcher?
She's a dispatcher, jailer, secretary.
Q. Okay. And this report, Exhibit 2, is entitled "Supplementary Investigative Report," correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Is this the second report -- investigative report that you completed on this incident?
A. This is just my supplement.
Q. Where is the initial report?
A. It would be in Ranger Gordon's or my criminal investigators -- they're the ones that did the investigation. I just wrote the report, what my -- what I did.
Q. And this is the only report that you wrote?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And so explain to me -- I believe I understand, but explain to me why this is entitled "Supplementary Investigative Report"?
A. Anytime you -- when we're investigating, then a person that writes a report to add to it is a supplement.
Q. So this is your part of a bigger --
A. Yes.
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Q. -- report?
A. The main report.
Q. I just wanted to make sure I understood --
A. Yes.
Q. -- the terminology.
A. Okay.
Q. Do you recall when you prepared this report? I know it's dated September 23rd, but I want to know approximately when you prepared it.
A. September the 23rd.
Q. All right. And it was typed on that day as well?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. When was it typed?
A. I don't -- I don't recall when it was typed.
Q. All right. Was it the next day or within that week or sometime later?
A. I don't recall. I write all my reports, and then I turn them in and the secretaries type them.
Q. I'm going to hand you Exhibits 3 and 4.
A. Do you want this back?
Q. You can just put it in the middle here.
A. Okay.
Q. The court reporter will take care of them. I'll hand you Exhibits 3 and 4. I just want to know if you -- well, you actually have to look at them -- whether you've seen them before.
Mr. Crenshaw: I suppose this is 3 (indicating)?
The Reporter: Yes.
Ms. Jones: Bonnie, it's hot in here.
Ms. Lockhart: Can we go off for a minute and see if I can do something about the temperature?
Ms. Jones: We're going to go off for a moment.
The Videographer: Off the record at 1:33 p.m.
(Brief Recess)
The Videographer: We're back on the record at 1:45p.m.
Questions By Ms. Jones:
Q. My question was, after having a chance to look at Depo -- Garrett Depo Exhibit 3, Garrett Depo Exhibit 4, have you seen these exhibits before?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Can you please start with No. 3 -- Exhibit 3? Tell us what this is.
A. It's a report by my investigator.
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Q. And which investigator is that?
A. Gary Hudgens.
Q. And does it relate to the matter that we're here on today, the Tina Wisdom matter?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And is this report part of the investigative report, the large, big picture, total investigative report?
A. Yes.
Ms. Lockhart: And excuse me, Ms. Jones. Just to make the record complete, I believe there are two reports, a Hudgens and a Bauman report, that comprise Exhibit No. 3.
Ms. Jones: Thank you for pointing that out.
Questions By Ms. Jones:
Q. Do you confirm that, Sheriff, since you're the one being deposed?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Okay. Not that we would dispute Ms. Lockhart for any reason.
A. Yes.
Q. And can we go now to Exhibit No. 4?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you identify this report?
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A. Yes.
Q. And what is it, please?
A. A report from one of my jailers.
Q. And take a look at the first two pages --
A. Yes.
Q. -- and tell us whose report this is.
A. It's John Overstreet's.
Q. All right. Now, let's go to Pages 3 and 4 of Exhibit 4. And can you identify who made this report?
A. Donald Stewart.
Q. Both of these gentlemen are your jailers, correct?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And is this part -- the supplementary investigation report that are made -- excuse me -- that have been marked as Exhibit 4, is this part of the overall investigative report on the T.W., sexual assault?
A. Yes.
Q. Did -- these individuals that prepared investigative reports, Exhibits 3 and 4, did they make these reports at your direction?
A. I don't understand what you're saying.
Q. Did you ask the individuals to prepare a report?
A. Yes.
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Q. So these reports were prepared in response to a directive by the sheriff?
A. Anytime we have an incident in the jail, they write a report.
Q. All right. Have you had previous incidents in the jail wherein a report became necessary?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Can you give us an example of one of those incidents?
A. Well, we have drunks that come in. You know, sometimes we have to take an inmate to the hospital for various reasons. Usually they always write a report.
Q. And where would these investigative reports be maintained? Do you have a special place?
A. No. They're maintained in the files.
Q. And where are the files?
A. In the sheriff's office.
Q. On the second floor?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you the keeper of those reports?
A. My secretary.
Q. And that's Pam Cowan?
A. Lonetta Nixon.
Q. Lonetta Nixon?
A. Yes, ma'am.
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Q. She's the custodian of those reports?
A. Uh-huh, yes.
Q. Did Joey Gordon utilize the support of the sheriff's office in conducting his report -- excuse me -- in conducting his investigation? Did he utilize your employees to assist him?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you tell us who those employees are?
A. Gary Hudgens and Jay Bauman.
Q. They're actually employees of the sheriff's department?
A. Yes, criminal investigations.
Q. Has Joey Gordon been called in before to help investigate matters relating to your jail?
A. I don't know.
Q. To your knowledge, has he ever come in to help investigate a matter involving the jail?
A. I -- I don't recall.
Q. After you met with Tina Wisdom in the rec area and you completed your communication with her, what did you do after that?
A. I went back downstairs.
Q. To the second floor?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And what did you do then?
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A. I talked to Ranger Gordon and -- I talked to Ranger Gordon, and he said they were going to get a statement from Johnny Pesina and they were going to interview Tina --
Q. All, right. Do you know if they got --
A. --and get a statement.
Q. Oh, I'm sorry.
A. Get a statement from her.
Q. Do you know whether or not they actually interviewed Johnny Pesina and obtained a statement from him?
A. Yes.
Q. Where is that statement?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you ever see it?
A. No.
Q. What happened after that, after they told you they were going to obtain statements from Pesina and Tina?
A. I let them continue the investigation.
Q. And?
A. And I left.
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Q. And where did you go?
A. I went home and ate supper.
Q. So it was about dinner time at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. Did anyone discuss getting Tina Wisdom to the hospital for a sexual assault examination?
A. I'm -- I'm not sure.
Q. Did you not inquire about that?
A. I didn't inquire about it, but that's standard procedure.
Q. Standard procedure for whom?
A. For anytime we have a sexual assault.
Q. So why didn't you order one to be done for Tina Wisdom?
A. I didn't feel like I needed to order one when the Texas Ranger and my two investigators -- that's what they're being paid for to take care of.
Q. So when you left for supper that evening, you were leaving that in someone else's hands to handle?
A. It's not my job to investigate. I'm the sheriff. That's the reason I delegate people to do things, and that's what my investigators are paid for.
Q. So you left it for someone else to do is all I'm asking.
A. Yes, ma'am.
Page 105
Q. How long did the interview last with Ms. Wisdom, between yourself and Ms. Wisdom?
A. Maybe a minute, two minutes. I have no idea.
Q. It wasn't very long.
Q. Do you know whether or not Ms. Wisdom was taken to the hospital for a sexual assault exam?
A. I don't know.
Q. When Johnny Pesina told you that he had consensual sex with Ms. Wisdom, did you believe him?
A. I believed, yes.
Q. What did you believe?
A. I believe that he had consensual sex.
Q. And how do you know that?
A. Because no evidence that we found where there was any rape.
Q. Did you conduct any tests to determine that?
A. I didn't.
Q. So how did you know that he had not raped her?
A. Because of what my investigators told me.
Q. What did they tell you?
A. They told me it was inconclusive.
Q. Okay. But you believed an individual with a sexual deviant history, correct?
A. I don't -- I don't understand what you're --
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the sexual deviant, can you explain to me what that means?
Q. You knew that Johnny Pesina was in your jail --
A. Yes.
Q. -- correct? And you knew that Johnny Pesina was an inmate trustee, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You also knew that Johnny Pesina was in your jail because of sexual indecency charges?
A. I knew he was in jail for sexual indecency.
Q. All right. And you chose -- I believe that's your testimony. You chose to believe Johnny Pesina, that he had consensual sex with Tina Wisdom; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have any other reason -- did you have any reason to believe Johnny Pesina over Tina Wisdom?
A. No.
Q. No support for either story, correct -- no independent support?
A. Just what -- our investigation.
Q. Well, had it been completed at the time?
A. Well, when you wait 12 hours or so before you report a rape, I mean, I don't understand that. I mean, why wasn't the outcry made earlier? And I know I shouldn't be talking, but, I mean, that's the way I feel.
Page 107
Q. So if a woman waits 12 hours before she reports a rape, she must not be telling the truth?
A. No. That's not what I mean.
Q. All right.
A. But I mean that an outcry should be made as soon as possible.
Q. And how would you -- how -- what do you mean by "an outcry"?
A. An outcry?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Someone saying that something has happened to them. I'm sure you know what -- I'm trying to think of the right word. A victim makes outcries. Her sister made an outcry.
Q. On her behalf?
A. Yes.
Q. And how did her sister know?
A. She was visiting -- from what I understand, she was visiting with Tina in Rec.
Q. And Tina told her sister?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that your understanding?
A. That's what I understand.
Q. Sheriff, would you agree with me that it may be difficult for someone who's been raped to tell anybody or
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discuss with anybody what has happened to them?
A. I don't know.
Q. Do you think there's a hard, fast rule that a victim is always going to cry out about what has happened to them?
A. I don't know.
Q. Have you had any training -- any formal training victims -- regarding victims and how they react to situations?
A. I've been to numerous schools. It's been a while.
Q. Well, tell me the school you've been to to determine a rape victim's behavior and what they typically do in such circumstances.
Q. I can't give you that information because I don't remember, you know, what schools we were at. We went to DPS, several sexual assault schools, and we were required every -- every year to -- to every two years to have so much training in -- in that kind of stuff.
Q. Sheriff Garrett, have you ever been raped?
A. No.
Q. Has your wife or your daughters ever been raped?
A. No.
Q. Do you have any firsthand personal knowledge of
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a person that has had to undergo such an outrageous crime?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Surely you're not testifying today that there is the hard, fast rule as to what a rape victim should or should not do after they're raped, are you? That's not --
A. No, ma'am.
Q. -- your testimony, is it, sir?
A. No, ma'am. I just believe that an outcry could be made a lot sooner than 12 hours.
Q. It could be?
A. Yes.
Q. But it's not required, is it?
A. I know that. I know that.
Q. At the time that this rape occurred -- or alleged rape, as you put it, occurred, were there any female jailers on duty, sir?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. What happened after the statements were taken from Pesina and from Ms. Wisdom? What was the next step in this process during September 23rd to September 24th time frame?
A. Between that time and -- between September 23rd and the 24th?
Page 110
Q. Yes.
A. They continued their investigation.
Q. And do you know how many people were investigated -- excuse me -- were interviewed during this investigation?
A. No.
Q. Do you know if inmates were interviewed?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know who those inmates are?
A. Some of them. I don't know all of them. I don't --
Q. Who are some of the ones that you can recall?
A. I don't recall their names.
Q. Were you -- did you participate in the investigation?
A. No, ma'am, not --
Q. So once you went home for dinner that evening, you did not participate in the investigation past that point?
A. I came back, but I didn't do any investigating.
Q. All right, sir. During the time that the investigation -- excuse me. Subsequent to the time the investigation went beyond interviewing Mr. Pesina and Ms. Wisdom, did you learn that Holland Ligon had sexual contact with female inmates?
Page 111
A. At -- now --
Q. During the time that others were interviewed, beyond the interview of Pesina, beyond the interview of Ms. Wisdom, did you learn from those interviews, did you receive feedback from those interviews that Holland Ligon had sexual contact with female inmates?
A. I had read the statement on Jeannie Lee Rowley Sam Oatman give me and then when the Grand Jury turned the investigation over to Joey Gordon and then when he -- he did his investigation because he interviewed.
Q. Yes. Several inmates that were incarcerated at the time of that incident -- September 23rd, 1997 incident informed your investigators that Holland Ligon had contact with female inmates. Did -- were you told about those interviews?
A. I have no knowledge of that.
Q. Were you aware that during the time that this information was being disclosed the tape recorder was shut off?
A. I have no information on that.
Q. Did you ever tell other jailers, your employees, "Keep an eye on that boy," referring to Holland Ligon?
A. Not that I recall.
Q. You don't recall?
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A. No, ma'am.
Q. Were you aware that Ligon had females, not incarcerated inmates but females, come into the jail and visit him at night?
A. No.
Q. No one ever told you about that?
A. No.
Q. Were you aware that Mr. Ligon worked a second job while working as a jailer?
A. I understood that he had done some day work, and what I'm referring to is a day here and a day there but no second -- I mean, just second job.
Q. Which shift did Mr. Ligon work?
A. He worked 7:00a. to 7:00p., and he worked a short time 7:00p. to 7:00a. I don't have the time frame.
Q. That's all right. Were you aware that Mr. Ligon was sleeping on the job and he had Johnny Pesina keep watch for him while he slept?
A. No, ma'am.
Mr. Nelson: Before you answer that, Sheriff, I'm going to object to the phrasing of the question in that it assumes facts not in evidence in several of those. But if we're going to continue to go down that line, until there's some evidence on that,
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I'm going to object.
Questions By Ms. Jones:
Q. You can still answer. His objection has been noted.
A. I'm going to say --
Q. Did you have any knowledge of Holland Ligon sleeping on the job?
A. No.
Q. No one ever brought that to your attention?
A. No.
Q. Was that -- would it be the responsibility of your chief jailer or any jailer on duty to report that type of behavior and conduct to you if they observed that conduct and behavior, sleeping on the job, sexual contact with other female inmates?
A. Yes.
Q. Would that be something that you would expect your jailers to report to you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever discipline Holland Ligon -- prior to his termination, did you ever discipline him for any reason during his term of employment as a jailer?
A. Just that once.
Q. Just that once. And the once was a termination?
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A. No.
Q. The incident involving the DEA agents?
A. Right, verbal.
Q. And that was the only time?
A. And then when I found out that he had had sex with one of the inmates, then I terminated him.
Q. Any other jailer, either the Chief Jailer Lawson or any other jailer, write memos to you relating to Ligon's behavior?
A. No.
Q. Was Ligon a must hire because of his grandfather?
A. No.
Q. Did he compete for that job?
A. Yes.
Q. What were his qualifications when he applied for that job?
A. I don't recall now what his qualifications -- I hadn't got -- I don't -- I got an application from him.
Q. All right.
A. But I don't remember.
Q. Do you recall if he had any prior law enforcement experience?
A. I don't know, not that I know of.
Q. Is Holland Ligon receiving any county benefits
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at this time?
A. No.
Q. Was he on full-time duty just prior to his termination about a month ago?
A. Yes.
Q. Was he ever placed on leave with or without pay?
A. No.
Q. After you obtained information about Mr. Ligon's conduct with Jeannie Lee, did you talk to Mr. Ligon about that?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he admit that he had had sex with Jeannie Lee?
A. Yes.
Q. While on duty as a jailer?
A. Yes. Could we take a little break?
Q. Sure.
The Videographer: Off the record at 2:09 p.m.
(Brief Recess)
The Videographer: We're back on the record at 2:16 p.m.
Questions By Ms. Jones:
Q. Sheriff Garrett, with respect to general
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recreation time for male and female inmates, does this include outdoor recreation time?
A. That's what I understand.
Q. And how do you understand that? By what means do you understand that?
A. According to my chief jailer.
Q. Well, you're the sheriff. I mean, does he tell you how things work in the jail?
A. He's my chief jailer and he decides on recreation.
Q. But do you have knowledge of that as a sheriff?
A. No.
Q. So you are still exercising supervision and control over the jail, aren't you?
A. Yes.
Q. And so what is your knowledge about the outdoor rec time that males and females receive?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know?
A. No.
Q. So you don't know whether males and females are getting equal outdoor rec time, do you?
A. I don't know.
Q. How about TV time? Do you know anything about that, the times that males and females get to watch
(Continued On Garrett Deposition V6)