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Q. You've never been told that?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Were you aware that Johnny Pesina was making phone calls to Jada Simpson, a bank employee, while incarcerated in your jail?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. No one ever told you about that?
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A. No, ma'am.
Q. How do you receive complaints about jailers or inmates? How would you receive complaints about either jailers or inmates?
A. Usually through written notice. I usually find a letter in my box addressed to the sheriff in the jail.
Q. How often do you meet with your chief jailer, Mr. Lawson?
A. Everyday --
Q. Does Mister --
A. -- when I work.
Q. Okay. Excuse me. I'm sorry.
A. Everyday when I work. You know, I usually work six days a week.
Q. And how many days a week does Mr. Lawson work?
A. Five days.
Q. And how many hours does he work?
A. 40 hours.
Q. Is there an assistant chief jailer or a substitute chief jailer when Mr. Lawson is not on duty?
A. No.
Q. How do you receive reports or information from the individuals that are on duty when Chief Lawson is not on duty?
A. Our jailers come downstairs every day to pick
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up the mail and take and deliver the mail, and if there's anything with my name addressed to it, then they stick it in my box.
Q. How many female inmate trustees have you had in your jail since you've been sheriff?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Do you know if there's ever been a female trustee?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. You are -- you're stating that there has been in the past?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. Okay. Do you know who was responsible for appointing or selecting the female inmate trustee?
A. Chief Jailer Melvin Lawson.
Q. Has Melvin Lawson been your chief jailer since you've been sheriff?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you please describe the difference between a regular jail inmate and an inmate trustee? Distingish between what each one of them do and what privileges the trustee has that the regular or the normal jail inmate doesn't have.
Q. I don't know that I can give you all the details.
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Q. Can you give me some?
A. Trustees, along with the jailers, are trusted to deliver the food at breakfast, lunch and dinner, mopping the floors, cleaning of the dishes, utensils, washing of clothes, washing cars, cleaning the trash out. That's it.
Q. And if you didn't have trustees, who would perform those tasks that you just listed?
A. Jailers.
Q. How is the food prepared prior to the food being delivered to the inmates?
A. We -- prepare it in the jail. So --
Q. And who is "we"?
A. The jailers.
Q. Are inmate trustees ever given the task of preparing food?
A. What it is, it's TV dinners, and they -- they stick them in this big oven and, you know --
Q. Yes, sir.
A. -- just like you would at home.
Q. Are inmates --
A. Yes.
Q. -- allowed to prepare the food?
A. Yes. But it's supervised when they're cooking the food.
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Q. And when you say they're supervised, can you describe that type of supervision that you're talking about?
A. The jailers are there to make sure that they are preparing the right food for the right people.
Q. When you say "the jailers are there," are -- you mean -- do you mean the jailer is standing there watching the inmate prepare the food?
A. Sometimes.
Q. But not always?
A. No, not always.
Q. Are the trustees assigned any keys for the jail?
A. No.
Q. How does the trustee get in and out of the third floor, let's say? How does the trustee leave the third floor to take out the trash, for example?
A. Elevator.
Q. And how does the trustee leave the building to take out the trash to the dumpster?
A. Well, the elevator takes them down to the bottom floor, and then they walk out the back door and right straight to the dumpster.
Q. And is the back door locked?
A. No, ma'am, not on the first floor.
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Q. From the inside, it's not locked, and from the outside coming back in, it's not locked?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Do you know of any trustee that's ever been assigned keys for the jail?
A. No.
Q. Would you object to an inmate trustee receiving access to the jail through a set of keys?
A. It's in the rules that they not have a key to the cell doors.
Q. So would you object to that if they did have access to keys?
A. Yes.
Q. So are we talking about never giving an inmate trustee keys, is that right, temporarily, permanently?
A. I have no knowledge of any trustees having keys.
Q. And that would be against your policies?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know whether or not there is a written code of ethics, either an internal written code of ethics for your jailers or some external code of ethics, that your jailers are required to abide by?
A. I'm not sure what you're asking for.
Q. Do you have an internal policy or a code of
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ethics for your jailers to follow?
A. What they can do and what they can't do? Is that what you're talking about or --
Q. The ethics code. Do you know what ethics -- you -- do you have a code of ethics -- a written code of ethics for your jailers? Do you know if there's a written code of ethics that exists for your jailers?
A. I'm not sure. We have our policy manual and our procedures. And I'm not sure exactly what you want, but that's what we -- we have our -- we have a county policy manual and then we have a department policy manual that addresses some of the issues.
Q. Okay. Do you know whether or not your policy manual for your department requires an officer -- excuse me -- a jailer of your office to report any illegal behavior that takes place within your jail either on the part of a jailer or an inmate?
A. What do you mean?
Q. In other words, do you have a written policy that requires a jailer to report illegal or unethical behavior to you, the sheriff of that department?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that part of your policies?
A. That's part of the policy manual.
Q. Has anyone ever reported to you any improper
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behavior on the part of any of your jailers at any time since you've been sheriff?
A. Yes.
Q. And when was that, please?
A. I don't -- I don't have the time. It's been several months ago.
Q. And what was the behavior that was reported to you.
A. You -- I don't understand what you're saying.
Q. All right. You indicated that improper behavior was reported to you; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. What was the improper behavior that was reported to you? What was the nature of it?
A. You want me to explain what happened or --
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Okay. It was reported to me that one of the jailers had dressed up a couple of the trustees and they was having trouble with this boy that was strung out on drugs. And he kept hollering and wanting to see his DEA agent and stuff like that, and they went up there and talked to him.
Q. And "they" were? When you say "they went up and talked to him," are these the ones that were posing as a --
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A. Yes.
Q. -- DEA agent?
A. Yes, the trustees.
Q. Were they -- these were inmate trustees?
A. Yes.
Q. And who authorized the inmate trustees to dress up posing like DEA agents?
A. One of the jailers.
Q. Which jailer?
A. Holland Ligon.
Q. And what did you do about that?
A. I brought Mr. Ligon down at the office and talked to him. And I had just had rumor of this, and then I had a report from one of the officers that heard this was going on. And I took immediate action and reprimanded him for it.
Q. What do you mean by "reprimand"?
A. I told him I didn't want no more of that going on.
Q. So it was a verbal reprimand?
A. Yes, verbal.
Q. Did anything at all -- any notation at all go in his file or in your records indicating that that incident occurred?
A. No, ma'am, I don't believe.
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Q. Did you consider that incident to be serious?
A. Well, no need things like that going on in the jail. I considered it serious to me. I try to run a good jail.
Q. Did the inmate suffer any bodily injury by the inmate trustees that posed as DEA agents?
A. No. They didn't go in the cell. He was in a cell -- in a holding cell.
Q. Okay. Any other incidents or illegal or improper behavior reported to you?
A. Not that I can recall.
Q. Did you ever discipline Mr. Ligon for having sex with a female --
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Let me finish my question.
A. Okay. I'm sorry.
Q., That's okay. -- with a female inmate at any time during your administration as sheriff of Llano County?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. You never reprimanded him for that?
A. No.
Q. Did any of your jailers ever report to you that they caught Mr. Ligon having sex with an inmate?
A. No, ma'am.
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Q. Can you please describe your audio surveillance that the jailers have of each cell?
A. Are you talking about the cameras that are already in the jail?
Q. Do you have video cameras?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Talk to me about what kind of audio -- in other words, you've got a PA system of some sort or some monitor where you can hear what activities are taking place, and you have cameras; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you please describe exactly how they work, where they're located? And I would be asking you whether or not it has worked for you to have those two types of systems, audio and video.
Q. Each and every cell has an audio -- little box that we talk back and forth to the inmates and we can hear what's going on in the cells, and we've got cameras that run down each way -- each hallway.
Q. Can you see inside the cell?
A. Not inside.
Q. And how is the audio monitor turned on, and where is the turn on/turn off switch for the audio monitor?
A. It's located in the office of the jailers, the
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booking area.
Q. Can the jailers that are in the booking area see the cell doors of the male and female units?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Can the audio monitors be turned off by the jailers that are working in that area?
A. Yes.
Q. Are the monitors ever turned off?
A. Yes.
Q. And for what purpose would they be turned off?
A. When the jailers go downstairs, they turn it off and switch if off, and then it's monitored down in our dispatch.
Q. Is the dispatch area or office always staffed 24 hours per day?
A. Yes.
Q. What type of surveillance equipment do you have in the jail? Do you know the brand name?
A. No, ma'am, I don't.
Q. Has it been in the jail since you've been sheriff?
A. Yes.
Q. So you wouldn't consider it to be state of the art, would you?
A. Well, we have to -- we've had to replace
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cameras from time to time, but I don't know when the last time that there was a camera replaced.
Q. How about the audio?
A. Yes. We -- from time to time, we have problems with the audio, and it's been -- worked on.
Q. And when you have it worked on, who works on it?
A. Different ones. We've got an electrician in Llano that works on them. And also a man by the name of Dale Laystry is our communications man, and he works on them.
Q. What's the electrician's name?
A. Let me think just a minute, Larry Miller.
Q. Does he live in Llano?
A. Yes,ma'am.
Q. Do you have a policy regarding male inmates observing female inmates while they're in the shower or in their cells, in their bunks?
A. They're not supposed to do that, no.
Q. What kind of access, if any, would an inmate trustee have when delivering meals to female inmates? What kind of access would they have, visual access?
A. We have a little door which is called a beanie hole, and they slide the food in in that hole.
Q. And can they see the female inmate inside the
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cell? Can the female inmate be observed?
A. Through the bean hole?
Q. Is that the only way that the female can be observed?
A. No. We have little glasses -- we have little glasses with little door on them that are kept shut, but they can open and see inside the cell.
Q. It can be accessed from the outside and opened, is that correct?
A. Yes. They're -- they're just little glass doors.
Q. Yes, sir. But you can see inside?
A. Yes.
Q. When the inmate trustee delivers the meal to female inmates, are the inmate trustees supervised by a jailer?
A. Yes.
Q. At all times?
A. I'm not sure about that. I couldn't tell you all times, but I know they're supervised.
Q. Does that mean that there's a jailer standing right next to the inmate trustee?
A. Yes.
Q. And how do you know that that occurs?
A. That's what the jailers told me. I mean, you
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know --
Q. Who told you?
A. Some of the jailers, Melvin Lawson.
Q. What did he tell you?
A. He just -- when we were going into this, he told me that he was -- that the -- when the inmates delivered food to the female inmates there was a jailer with him.
Q. When did Melvin Lawson tell you that?
A. I'm not sure.
Q. Was it this year, 1998?
A. Probably '97.
Q. Do you have a policy that requires a female officer -- excuse me -- female jailer to be on duty when you have female inmates incarcerated in your jail?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. You don't have that policy?
A. No, ma'am.
Q., Have you had any problems in the past -- aside from T.W. and aside from Kathy Maynard, have you had any problems with trustees abusing or taking advantage of inmates of the opposite sex?
A. I don't understand what you're saying. What are you asking me?
Q. What I'm asking is, other than this case that
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we're here on today, T.W., and Kathy Maynard, have you had problems in the past with inmate trustees taking advantage of female inmates?
A. I have no information of that.
Q. You have no knowledge?
A. No knowledge.
Q. Have you ever disciplined one of your jailers for not properly supervising an inmate trustee?
A. No.
Q. Have you ever determined -- as sheriff, have you ever determined that an inmate trustee was not properly supervised?
A. I'm not sure what you're asking.
Q. As the sheriff, you have ultimate responsibility for your jail, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Has there ever been a time when you've determined that an inmate trustee in your jail was not properly supervised by one of your jailers?
A. My qualified chief jailer takes care of all those aspects, and if he can't handle it, then he contacts me.
Q. All right.
A. But I don't recall ever. That's the reason I've got Melvin Lawson, is because he's qualified to take
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care of those situations.
Q. So you have not ever determined that there was insufficient supervision of your inmate trustees? You've never made that determination?
A. I mean, who -- who are we talking about? Are we talking about -- I mean, I don't understand what you're asking? I mean, are you talking about --
Q. Okay. I'll be --
A. -- since I've been sheriff or --
Q. Yes, sir.
A. -- last week or --
Q. Since you've been sheriff, have you ever --
A. Since I've been sheriff.
Q. -- made a determination that your inmate trustees in your jail had not been properly supervised at any time? I'm not talking about anybody in particular. Since you've been sheriff, have you ever made that determination?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Did you ever make a determination that Johnny Pesina had not been properly supervised?
A. Yes.
Q. And when did you make that determination?
A. After this alleged assault came up, I felt like that he needed to be more supervised.
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Q. Did you pass that information on to Chief Lawson?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you discipline Chief Lawson in any way?
A. Yes. I haven't -- I have disciplined Mr. Lawson.
Q. What did you do? What kind of discipline action did you take?
A. Ma'am, that's a personnel matter, and I'm not going to go into that here in this -- what I disciplined Mr. Lawson about. And, I mean --
Q. Did you reprimand him?
A. Yes.
Q. Verbally or in writing?
A. In writing.
Q. Is that a part of his personnel file?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he lose any time from work or --
A. No, ma'am.
Q. All right. Can you tell us what measures, if any, have you taken to ensure that female inmates will not be abused or harassed by inmate trustees?
A. Ma'am, I don't have any information that any of the female inmates have been harassed by male trusteess.
Q. So what -- you indicated that your policy for
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selecting trustees changed as a result of the incident --
A. Yes.
Q. So you haven't taken any measures to ensure that women are kept safe from male inmate trustees?
A. Like I said, I don't have any information that this alleged assault took place.
Q. Well, then why did you change your policy on selecting trustees?
A. When I looked at who was made trustee, I felt like I needed to make a change. And I'm the sheriff and I can make that change, and I didn't like having a person of Johnny Pesina's character being trustee.
Q. What aspect or what part of his character did you not like?
A. Well, I didn't feel like that him being a trustee was in the best interest of my department.
Q. Okay. And why not?
A. Because he had been in jail for indecency with a child.
Q. Sheriff Garrett, how did Johnny Pesina gain access to the women's cell?
A. From my investigation, I found that the lock
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was faulty and a person could take a flat instrument and open the door.
Q. Do you know how long that lock had been faulty?
A. I'm not sure. The first -- first time we knew it is when this came up.
Q. And you say you go up to the jail at least two or three times a day?
A. Yes.
Q. You never noticed the faulty lock on the women's cell door?
A. No, ma'am.
Q. Why not?
A. It's Cell 9. First of all, you'd have to be looking for it to be faulty. I mean, the lock shuts and the key locks it, but there was a gap in and aroung the lock that you could take a sharp instrument. It probably came from the Southern Steel. When they put those locks in, it probably came that way.
Q. And you never -- as sheriff of this jail, you never noticed that?
A. How could I?
Q. By obervation perhaps.
A. I mean, just looking at it. The only reason we found that it was a faulty lock is because we were back there looking for how this person got in because we knew
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they didn't have a key to get in.
Q. And how do you know that they didn't have a key to get in?
A. Because all of the keys were accounted for.
Q. Do you have any policies or procedures to ensure that your jail cells are properly locked?
A. Yes.
Q. And what are those policies and procedures?
A. Every one is locked down.
Q. And how do you determine that that's the case?
A. Ma'am, all you have to do is just walk down the -- down the runway and the doors are locked.
Q. Well, obviously they weren't. You indicated that you found that there was a malfunction in the lock, correct?
A. The door was locked. You had to take a flat instrument and open -- and jimmy the lock to open it. It -- the door was locked. You could not just pull on the door and open it.
Q. You've been sheriff since 1993, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And you indicated that the door lock was probably like that when it came from Southern Steel?
A. I'm not sure.
Q. In the four -- what is it, six years -- excuse
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me -- five, six years that you've been sheriff, you're just finding out that you had a malfunction --
A. We had no --
Q. -- in your lock?
A. We had no report of anyone going in the cell or coming out of the cell.
Q. Now, women weren't able to get out of the cell because of this malfunction, were they?
A. That's right.
Q. But people could get inside?
A. Yes, ma'am.
Q. And the first time you determined -- the first time you were able to determine that someone got inside without authorization was when?
A. September, '97.
Q. And when did you get the jail door repaired?
A. I called Southern Steel the same day, and I believe, if I'm not wrong, they came up the next day. We got a work order. I think it was probably on the 24th; might have been the 25th.
(Continued on Garrett Deposition V4